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EV WORLD EXCLUSIVE ARTICLE |
One of three of AFS Trinity-modified Saturn Vue Green Line sport utility vehicles, which offers true 40-mile electric only range and surprising acceleration despite weighting 1,400 lbs ( 635 kg) more than the original vehicle.
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AFS Trinity Perfects Plug-in Hybrid Saturn Vue
By Bill Moore
AFS Trinity president Ed Furia briefs EV World on his firm's breakthrough plug-in hybrid conversion.
Open Access Article Originally Published: January 13, 2008
Has AFS Trinity, a small technology company in California, solved the challenge of a 40 mile plug-in hybrid? Ed Furia, its president and CEO, believes they have.
He called me two weeks ago, urging me to keep mum until today, about his firm's forthcoming announcement on the eve of the Detroit Auto Show. He wanted to alert me to the fact that his company had perfected their plug-in hybrid drive system, which has been in development quietly for months. [See EV World's 31 January 2006 interview with Furia entitled Extreme Hybrids Ahead].
Based on a combination of ultracapacitors and lithium-ion batteries, their approach could solve the the problem of relying on a battery-only approach, while offering not only range, but exciting performance.
After evaluating eight different candidate vehicles, AFS Trinity chose the Saturn VUE, purchasing three of the micro-hybrid Sport Utility Vehicles, converting them into true 40-mile (64 km) electric range, grid-charged hybrids.
Restraining his obvious pride and excitement, he explained that a standard Saturn VUE Green Line can accelerate from zero to sixty in 12.5 seconds. Despite weighing some 1,400 lbs (635 kg) after its PHEV upgrade, the VUE demonstrated 11.6 second 0-60 performance in electric-only mode. But even more impressive, Furia told me with obvious delight, in full hybrid mode, it turned in an impressive 6.9 seconds, faster than a Porsche Cayenne.
Furia stressed that the vehicle makes use of largely off-the-shelf components and that in mass production, he estimates the weight of the plug-in drive system could reduced to the point that overall vehicle weigh could be reduced from 500-1000 pounds.
Equipped with a custom-made Ricardo Engineering transmission, the SUV has a theoretical top speed of 90 mph -- Furia said it's been test driven at Michelin's Laurens, South Carolina proving grounds to 87 mph with four adults on board. It was at the same track that it drove 41.9 miles in EV-only mode, achieving that GM is hoping to accomplish with its Volt and clearly besting Toyota's own plug-in Prius efforts.
The combination of high-power ultracapacitors, which discharge from 100-20% in seconds and are recharged in just "a couple minutes", and high-energy lithium-ion batteries, mean the trademarked "FastEnergy" system appears to address the need for both a long-life and high energy-density storage system. Furia told me that he hopes to license it to automakers who are looking for a plug-in hybrid solution that can bypass the shortcomings of battery-only approaches. [See WSJ article, Race to Make Electric Cars Stalled by Battery Problems].
He sees grid-charged hybrids as a much more practical approach to solving the nation's oil dependence than building an expensive hydrogen infrastructure, estimated by some to cost $500 billion just to meet the needs of 40% of the U.S vehicle fleet. Instead, there is enough overnight grid capacity to charge 180 million of America's 230 million motor vehicles, or nearly 80% of all the light vehicles in the country. By GM's estimate a 40-mile range plug-in will meet the transportation needs of close to 80% of all commuters in North America.
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18 comments so far...
30-Nov-2009
68583
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they should build more cars with these kinds of car auto parts. it really looks very solid. good job.
Posted by: John Mitchell
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08-Mar-2008
60690
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Thanks ATS Trinity for your work. Anybody that disses this work had better get a reality check. Peak oil is a serious global problem. We should all be writing to our congressman to force auto makers to use this technology now. Red tape and politics as usual is going to ruin this planet. Not just for the U.S.A. BUT FOR EVERYBODY. Also we need to be looking at compressed air cars that are being made in Europe and India.Simple and clean. Yes it requires enery to store energy but remember fossil fuels are going to run out PERIOD.Just like land they ain't making anymore.
Posted by: randy dodd
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13-Jan-2008
59985
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Jeffrey, you're right that I'm often critical of new companies and new technologies. Let me tell you why.
I've worked in the software industry in Silicon Valley since I graduated from college in 1980. That means I've been through several cycles of boom and bust. I've seen the computer industry grow tremendously.
But I have also seen billions of dollars wasted. Companies and technologies were hyped beyond what they should have been. One of the more notable instances of this was the whole Y2K computer bug fiasco.
Some economists believe that the money spent on that -- Citicorp alone spent a reported $1 billion, and more than $600 billion was estimated to have been spent worldwide -- was the main cause for the meltdown in tech stocks in 2000. That meltdown caused a lot of hurt. Many older people (including my parents) lost a good chunk of their retirement funds.
We are seeing that kind of thing now, I think, in the ethanol industry. Too many investors thought they saw a good business opportunity. Now many think that next year ethanol refining capacity will be twice demand. And that the price of ethanol will go in the toilet, refineries will close, and investors will take a bath.
So I think it is valuable for people who have an interest in electric vehicles -- the kind of people who visit this website -- to try to cut through hype and fluff to evaluate the substance. Separating the wheat from the chaff is, I think, a necessary part of the harvest.
Others may disagree with that view. If Bill Moore wants to limit comments on EVWorld to positive comments, that's his right. I do respect Bill's request that comments be civil -- you won't catch me calling people idiots. But I also think skeptical, critical comments are just as important on EVWorld as positive comments.
Finally, I admit that I am not an expert on electric vehicles. I am an amateur. But I don't make critical comments lightly. My interest in electric cars is strong -- I have spent a lot of time looking into them. I drove out to UC Davis to talk with Professor Andrew Frank and look at his lab. I spoke with Dan Elliott, CEO of Phoenix Motorcars, on the phone. I went to EVS-21 in Long Beach and EVS-23 in Anaheim. And since I travel frequently to Japan on business and speak and read Japanese, I'm very familiar with what companies like Toyota, Honda, Panasonic, Toshiba and Yamaha are doing in this area.
Based on all that, I don't see anything new in what AFS Trinity has done. Combining batteries and supercapacitors to power a car has been done. Here on EVWorld you can find a report on a Japanese race car that has that.
But while using both batteries and supercapacitors has advantages, the weight and cost have been prohibitive. By adding 1,500 pounds to a car, I don't think AFS Trinity has solved the weight problem. And they don't say anything about cost, so I suspect the costs are quite high. Since they just used off-the-shelf components, I did not see anything innovative or promising about their approach.
But I may be wrong. I certainly respect your opinion to the contrary.
Posted by: john
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14-Jan-2008
59989
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Just one note to Bill Moore. I do not disagree with you about whether you should have covered this story. I saw this car on CBS, CNN and in the New York Times. You would have been remiss, I think, if you had not covered the story.
I disagreed with you about the newsworthiness of the electrical charging stations in London. I don't disagree about this.
And may I say that you did a much better job on the story than those other news organizations. Put together with your January 2006 interview with Ed Furia, your coverage of this story shows how your coverage of all electrical vehicle topics is better than anyone's.
Posted by: john
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14-Jan-2008
60001
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I found out about this plug-in hybrid today, and I say it is certainly intriguing. I think that it's very possible that this technology will get somewhere, but as has been said before, and also by AFS, this is all off the shelf tech. As such, I wish them luck on getting licensed. I really do. Most likely, GM and others will say, "Ah yes, um, we already knew about this" at which time AFS's only recourse on making money will be litigation, if their patents hold up against prior art. As John pointed out, ultra-caps as a buffer to guard against excessive drain on the batteries, (Lithium-ions don't like heavy loads,) has been used before. As a result, I don't think they will have their tech licensed.
VERY COOL retrofit, however. Just 2 weeks ago, I was dreaming of converting one of my vehicles to a serial hybrid, and calculating the costs involved. I think I'll finish my pure EV conversion before tackling a hybrid, however.
Best of luck to these guys. I'll certainly be seeing their display at the auto show next week, and taking lots of pictures.
Posted by: Durandal Roland
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14-Jan-2008
60003
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Hey, Where environmentists, we don't think anything is good enough, because we all know that the glass is always half empty. Until they offer us this car for Free with a guarentee that it will not be driven on the off chance it might hit some endangered species we all must just say No :)
Posted by: Bob Shafer
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15-Jan-2008
60019
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hola Bill,
Thanks for the interesting article.
I did see in other coverage where they mentioned the cost around 8500, which is 1500 cheaper than
other converters like hymotion. I hope that this product becomes a viable option for consumers.
The continuing momentum of rising gas prices and tightening gas supplies should all provide a market and financial incentive's for this company and others. This is good news though not an option for 2008. I'd love to convert my 95 saturn and see what kind of mileage I might get.
jerry H.
Posted by: jerry h
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13-Jan-2008
59966
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The high extra weight will mean added load on many vehicle subsystems, so a more thorough vehicle re-engineering may be required. The effect of the extra weight and its location on vehicle dynamics is also a concern. However, the bottom line is that I would buy it should it become commercial at a reasonable price.
Posted by: Donal McNally
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13-Jan-2008
59969
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How nice. Professor Andy Frank at UC Davis (FutureTruck) has been building 40 mile electric only hybrids for years, and no auto company has bought his ideas.
What about the weight? Firstly, they say that it could be reduced, but I know that if I haul my family anywhere, I have more than that added weight. How many people leave a trunk full of junk inside the car and haul it around? Maybe we'd better beef up the car's suspension!
And I love the old song and dance "I would buy one if it were at a reasonable price". No one seems to notice the unreasonable price of gas cars, the cost of protecting our supplies, costs of refining, polution, global warming, and on and on, that electrics leave out of the picture. If we were smart (which I ponder daily) we would not buy a gas car until it was reasonable.
Posted by: Robert Stelling
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13-Jan-2008
59970
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And here we have another shadetree mechanic who claims to have solved the battery problem. I can assure you that he has no idea how long these batteries will last, will offer no assurances nor guarantees, has no price points except that using capacitors increases costs, etc. I'm sick of seeing these vapor companies getting serious attention. Until you can provide some detailed info that can be verified and proves the system remotely feasible, I will consider this an
instance of shilling. Get serious people and get valid info before publishing these fantasies.
Posted by: kent beuchert
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13-Jan-2008
59972
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Yawn.
Posted by: john
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13-Jan-2008
59973
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Shade tree mechanic, Ken? You obviously haven't read this very closely or done your homework. This is a 'serious' effort by a company that has developed three working prototypes, which is more than can be said for some of the competition.
Yawn? Good grief, John... what do you want? Tesla's magic black box powering this thing? Give me a break here folks. This IS REAL news and it seems to be treated like just more smoke and mirrors.
Is it perfect? Is it ready for prime time? Not yet, but its clearly moving in the right direction.
Posted by: Bill Moore
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13-Jan-2008
59979
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Thats it, I'm adding to this. I love the idea of using ultracaps and batteries together to achieve a common result. The Saturn Vue technology is REAL indeed, and very innovative at that. All these components are off the shelf, another important factor since cost is always a consideration. I was looking at this technology yesterday and it blew my mind. I would also add that you are a complete idiot John, sorry. I noticed your critical nature is associated with just about every article posted here. If you don't enjoy the site leave, its really that simple.
Posted by: Jeffrey Ulshafer
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13-Jan-2008
59974
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JUST LET ME SAY!!!!!
GIVE EM HELL BILL. Or at least as Harry Truman said " at least they'll think it's hell.
My good gracious have we all become so jaded as to beat up every promising thing that comes down the pike. If this country "goes to hell in a hand basket" it will be because this less than productive attitude will supply the key to the gates.
I just completed a systems design effort to take a 50,000 ft sq 1920's vintage hotel to a near zero carbon foot print by throwing out all of the "conventional wisdom" from the experts. They all say it can't be done. Well thank heavens that the person who will actually pay the bill for this effort had enough sense to see that what generally passes for expert advice is really just someone who either is too lazy to look at a new approach or is so entrenched in and well compensated by the present ,that the future scares the hell out of them. Same thing with all this PHEV stuff. Come on guys. We should be applauding Bill for his fantastic achievement via this web site in getting this technology out in full view "where the goats can get at it"
Posted by: Lawrence Elliott
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13-Jan-2008
59976
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Thank You Bill,
I appreciate all you are doing to get the information out before the motoring public.
I have been following your dedicated efforts since day one and I am thankful for your efforts.
I know that it must be frustrating to get some of these stories and nothing happens , but that is the nature of new things that require lots of money and time.
Some people will post a reply just because they can, not realizing what this site is all about.
Many of us who know what is happening are great full for your dedication and are glad that you are doing the necessary research for us. Thanks again Bill.
CNN has a video of the car and it can be found at ........http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/tech/2008/01/11/hunter.extreme.hybrid.cnn
Posted by: Keith Tomilson
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13-Jan-2008
59977
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I meant no criticism of EVWorld. This website provides a lot of interesting information. I visit often.
I just don't see any breakthrough that AFS Trinity has made. Or any thing exciting. It's just another conversion.
Posted by: john
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01-Mar-2008
60609
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Bill,
The design is excellent, especially the ultracapacitors because most regenerative braking power redirected to quickly recharging batteries is usually only 15% efficient. charging the ultracapacitors instead of batteries with regenerative breaking is definitly the way to go because they can take the quick recharge.... I wish the doubting readers would do their research before complaining.
Posted by: Matt Cooper
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03-Mar-2008
60623
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The super capacitor + chemical battery combination can extend battery life while giving much better PHEV/BEV performance. An Australian Co. is putting both units in the same case.
The additional weight may be reduced with time and/or offset with the use of lighter car body materials
This may be the way to go to satisfy the requirements of more users.
Posted by: Harvey D
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