CARB is being disingenuous in claiming that NiMH is "too expensive" because the battery alone may cost up to $15,000 for a FFEV, and up to $5,000 for a serial plug-in like the volt.

After all, NiMH technology is here, now, and proven to work! Fuel cells not only are more expensive, but they will take EXTENSIVE RESEARCH before they can even be evaluated. Then there's the problem of the tanks needed, and the production of the H2 gas, and compressing it...and then, why not use CNG, it's clean and here now? If CARB claims a $15,000 battery pack is expensive, what about a $300,000 fuel cell??

So CARB's killing of the Electric car, they should admit, was a big MISTAKE. The fact that they are not admitting their mistake shows they are still dissimulating.

There are only 93 fuel cell cars 4 years after CARB killed the Electric car; there are still hundreds of all-electric RAV4-EV NiMH ZEV still running over 100 miles on a charge, and there would be hundreds more if not for CARB's surrender to the oil and auto companies monopoly power.

We need more Toyota RAV4-EV NiMH battery powered cars, to plug-in and charge from solar credits, and help finance the rooftop solar system. This "EV-PV" solution channels money from oil to solar power at the same time it reduces oil pollution, overseas wars, domestic and foreign oil dictators, and pollution, asthma, urban runoff, and oil dependency anemia.

CARB is abandoning its duty, as it did in 2003 when it killed the Electric car. The EV works, you can see ours run every day. There are still 328 in the hands of the public, thanks to Toyota.
Posted by: Doug Korthof

Currently, Li Ion is about $700/kWh. In automotive volume, Argonne National Laboratories claims $250/kWh. In a 50 kWh pack to give a midsize car with Prius-like aerodynamics 250 miles range and with 500 cycle life to 100% discharge, this is roughly 125,000 miles life for a $12,500 pack in volume, and the pack will degrade after about 10 years if properly cooled and managed. Such a car would basically achieve operating cost parity with comparable non-hybrid gasoline cars at $2.50-3.00/gallon. BUT, we need mass production. A report titled 'Fuel Cell Vehicles: Solution or Shell Game' found that in high volume, the drivetrain, Li Ion battery pack and electric drive combo to give a midsize car with no special attention to efficiency 300 miles range and 0-60 mph less than 8 seconds would be $20,000. Add about $5-10k for the cost of the chassis and some additional profit.

The picture is much better for NiMH in terms of lifecycle operating cost. While range is about 1/2 to 2/3 that of Li Ion per unit of weight, they last a lot longer and would be slightly cheaper to produce in mass production. UC Davis quotes $220/kWh in automotive volume and 1,750 cycles to 100% discharge. Cobasys quotes a more conservative 1,200 cycles to 80% discharge. The Toyota RAV4EVs have confirmed the theory in the real world, with 100 mile range packs lasting over 150,000 miles. Further, Nickel based batteries have a shelf life measurable in decades, not years. The RAV4 packs in Southern California Edison's fleet show no signs of degredation despite being 10 years of age, nevermind individuals on the EV list and elsewhere owning NiCd and NiFe batteries lasting 30+ years with ease. It is not unreasonable to assume large format NiMH will last a similar amount of time. A study by Cuenca and Gaines found that life cycle operating cost parity between a mass produced NiMH equipped EV and a comparable gasoline powered car would be at under $1.30/gallon gas. Gas hasn't been that cheap for years, and never may be again. NiMH is well capable of offering 150-200 miles range, given the 180 mile range Solectria Force, 350 mile range solectria Sunrise, and 150 mile range GM EV1. Fast charging schemes have also been developed for the Ovonic and Panasonic batteries to charge from 0-80% in 20 minutes. Look up aerovironment. A mass produced midsize NiMH EV with 0-60 mph acceleration < 9 seconds, 100+ mph top speed, seats 5 adults, 150+ miles range could be feasible for $20,000.

Li Ion is viable today but still somewhat expensive. NiMH has been viable for 10 years, but Chevron has helped insure that we won't have access to large format NiMH until 2014, or until a large automaker agrees to mass produce an EV for the public to purchase. The likelihood of the latter occuring is about nil.

Tesla knows a $20,000-30,000 midsize EV is possible TODAY. They also realize they don't have the capability to do mass production yet, so they're selling hand-built exotics like the Roadster in order to raise money to do it. Maybe in 10 years they'll raise the $200+ million needed to mass produce a family-oriented car and pass all of America's strict regulations(those ones lobbied in place by the big 3 in the 70s to shut out competition). Too bad by then we'll be well past the peak in oil production. The energy crisis is now. The major players in the auto industry could rapidly change this paradigm, but they refuse. Much less profit in maintenance-free electrics. What consumers want is not the same as what the industry offers consumers a chance to buy...
Posted by: John Westlund

As with any pure electric car, the key parameters are the batteries’ recharge time, energy density and useful life. The point of reference is the only recent electric vehicle from a major manufacturer, the late, lamented General Motors EV1.

Unlike the EV1, which used lead-acid batteries, the 100-percent electric Tesla Roadster’s 900-pound battery — or Energy Storage System — produces a 249-mile (400-km) range and, best of all, it can recharge in as little as 3.5 hours, according to IEEE Spectrum.

Phoenix MotorCars' NanoSafe li-ions are probably the best tech yet, because they overcome the heat-resistance buildup issue, thus eliminating 400 lbs of cooling system, a hugely significant advantage over all other battery types and current EV makers.

In the meantime, Electric SmartCar EVs are beginning to make their entrance on these shores, while Electric Mini's are not far behind

Electric Cars Kick Gas!

CARB continually notes that the battery costs for PHEVs and FPBEVs would not be recouped from fuel savings. This ignores the significant maintenance savings that PHEVs and BEVs would enjoy over conventional vehicles and even HEVs due to the proportional of the time they are in electrical versus mechanical drive mode.
Posted by: Peter Chase

Finance programs could be extended since EVs run practically forever, and that would make monthly costs attainable for many of us.

I have no idea if the Miles Automotive Javlon will come to market in late 08, but it will be a very sad euology for the US automotive industry, especially GM, if China brings the first affordable EV to the masses when Detroit had more than a decade jump on the world.

It seems silly to continue to speculate on the viability of EVs without some new battery technology when EVs using decade old battery technology continue to run just fine.

The only thing we seem to be waiting for is for those that currently make their money via ICE related industries to devise a way to make EVs as expensive. Once done, EVs will be available everywhere, as long as, those that currently make the most continue to make the most.

Thankfully, startups and independents will bring EVs to market whether the established ICE industries want it or not, because it is the right technology for the challenges the world faces. I look forward to the day when my toughest issue of the day is which EV to buy.
Posted by: Garry Holmberg

Maybe they should buy one of these real EVs and learn what the experts are doing instead of holding meetings to tell why they haven't done anything.

At least Toyota is committed to the lithium battery in 2008 hybrids. They will soon see what a difference advance tech batteries can do.
Posted by: jim stack