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EV WORLD EXCLUSIVE ARTICLE |
Tango creator Rick Woodbury with two of his innovative, narrow-body electric cars, which are capable to driving two abreast in a single 12 feet-wide highway lane. It is also legal in California to lane-split -- similar to motorcycles -- in a Tango.
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Tango EV creator's presentation to the Google Foundation on the benefits of narrow body electric vehicles
Open Access Article Originally Published: November 22, 2006
I've heard that to innovate, you don't give people what they ask for, but rather watch what they do. I've been watching what they do for over 50 years and I find it interesting that people driving cars by themselves with 4 empty seats around them jam up all the freeways, streets, and parking spaces in cities throughout the world at an incredible waste of time and resources.
It's as if people in a crowded subway all wore back packs that were 4 times bigger than they are. Their excuse would be: I might need the space sometimes. The packs would obviously fill up with stuff since the space is there. Parkinson's law in production and inventory control states that work in progress fills all available space.
According to the Texas Transportation Institute, at Texas A&M University, there are billion dollars wasted every year due to congestion in the US. There are 5.7-billion gallons of gasoline wasted. This would fill tank trucks lined up end-to-end, from NY City to Las Vegas and back. That's just the gasoline wasted due to congestion!
According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics there are 118-million workers in the US. Of them, 92-million drive by themselves to work every day with 4 empty seats. That's roughly 90% of all of the cars and roughly 80% of all workers that are driving solo in a car 4 times larger than needed.
Google Tech Talk Featuring Rick Woodbury
Unfortunately, small cars don't solve the problem. A Mini-Cooper takes relatively the same space on the freeway as the largest SUVs because they both use a full lane and both must have similar braking distance from the car in front.
Motorcycles could solve the problem as they can fit two-to-a-lane but are unsafe, offer no protection from the weather, and give little room to carry things. Because of that only 0.6% of workers use motorcycles and bicycles combined. Public transit is only 4.9% because it only works well in extremely dense cities or corridors.
A freeway lane is 12-feet wide by federal standard. A truck is 9' 4" from mirror to mirror. That leaves 16" of clearance on either side. In order to double a freeway lane's capacity, a car would have to be a maximum of 40" wide in order to have the same clearance in a 6' lane. The Tango is only 39" wide, so it easily fits in a half-lane. A Tango, however, is much easier to drive in a 6' lane than a truck is in a 12' lane. Because the driver is cab centered, one feels comfortable in the center of the lane knowing how close they are to other cars on either side. In a truck, mirrors have to be used just to see if one is in within the lane. Also, a Tango is so short that they would usually not be side-by-side because the braking distance is many times the length of the car. Not so with a truck. All this is to demonstrate that the Tango can drive comfortably in a 6' lane or double up in a 12' lane. We've driven 2 Tangos side-by-side in a single lane for over 40 miles at freeway speeds and it felt quite comfortable. The University of California Transportation Dept. and Booze-Allen-Hamilton did a study on a narrow car of nearly the same dimensions as the Tango and found it would increase lane capacity from 2,000 cars per hour to 4,400 cars per hour.
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Reader Comments
28 comments so far...
23-Dec-2006
41655
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I would gladly pay $20K for a Tango. I paid more than that for my 2000 Honda Insight, and I know the Tango is a lot safer, a lot quicker and handles way better (I've been paying attention to the Tango for years now, and I've watched the videos of it in Autocrosses).
This car might not sell to everyone at first, but I bet there would be at least 20,000 people that would want to buy one in the first year. Forget the lane-sharing capabilities for now, and all of the other future advantages...it's a cheap, highway capable EV for commuting.
I've also watched the Sparrow (now Meyers NmG) for quite some time. I even considered buying one, but they have 2 major disadvantages that I just haven't been able to rationalize my way past: No Air Conditioning (a necessity in Austin, TX), no Safety cage (fiberglass won't stop much of anything but rain). If they had AC and a safety cage as strong as the Tango's, I would gladly pay $25K (the current asking price).
So, yes, please....somebody fund the Tango and get it in to mass production so I can buy one. $20K would be a great price. $25K would be acceptable. $10-15K would be fantastic.
Jesse
Posted by: Jesse Spears
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22-Nov-2006
38027
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So the Tango is stable because it is ballasted with lead in the form of lead acid batteries lining the floor of the chassis as low down as possible. It's brilliant really, turning a negative (the massive weight of these batteries) into a positive. BUT - If you switch to li-ion batteries, which are far lighter, surely the stability is much diminished, maybe to the point of not being safe. I would think that it would be impossible to stuff enough li-ion batteries into the space available to give adequate ballast. They are just not dense enough. So wouldn't you have to add, for instance, sheets of lead in the bottom of the battery tray to provide the missing ballast? Or maybe make the entire floor of the vehicle out of thick steel or cast iron - which could conceivably have an advantage in chassis stiffness and handling.
Posted by: Roger Williams
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22-Nov-2006
38029
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I have not driven or seen a Tango, but I have driven a Sparrow as well as a Nevco, both three wheeled EV's. I love them but - my basic criticism of all these vehicles is simple: only one passenger. Even a motorcycle or a scooter can take a second passenger, but these larger and more expensive vehicles can't manage it. I think that is a fatal flaw, making them far less useful and appealing on a marketing basis. Even if the vehicle will be used 90% of the time by only one person, it's still a big limiting factor, if only psychologically. (Even two-seater sports cars are a tough sell for this reason.) If two people go out to dinner and both people have to take their own cars instead of sharing one, well then the savings in energy and traffic congestion is nil, especially if one of those cars is a conventional vehicle. The fact is that for less money people can buy a very economical gas powered 4-seater like a Scion. I believe that a Tango-like vehicle will have to at least fit 2 people AND be priced at or less than the cheapest conventional car available to ever succeed. You will never get lanes or parking changed to narrower layouts without a critical mass of narrow vehicles to use them.
Posted by: Roger Williams
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22-Nov-2006
38032
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Roger.... the Tango is a two-passenger EV with the 2nd person riding tandem behind the driver.
Posted by: Bill Moore
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22-Nov-2006
38035
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Having lived in places like Phoenix, Kansas City, and Virginia in July I don't think I would enjoy a commute that leaves me soaked in sweat upon my arrival. At least on my motorcycle, I get a breeze. The Tango might be fine in a temperate climate like the Pacific Northwest or Northern California, but it would be a nightmare on a humid 95-degree day anywhere else.
Posted by: Ralph Couey
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22-Nov-2006
38038
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Ralph the tango is equipped with AC and heater how could you possibly be hot with this car equipped with air conditioning
Posted by: Seth Sun
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22-Nov-2006
38045
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Sounds great! When can I see the crash test results?
Posted by: Greg Collins
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22-Nov-2006
38047
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Greg,
I've recently seen videos of crash tests on the Smart Car by Mercedes-Benz and the results will utterly amaze you. It is not yet an EV but their version of an EV will be out soon. It is a similar car to the Tango in size and structure and most likely similar in frame design. Don't underestimate these little 21st century commuter cars coming next year and the year after. They are not your typical ECHO or GEO or similar death trap. They have state of the art design and are WAY tougher than most popular cars on the road today. Do a Google for Smart Car Crash Test and see for yourself.
Lightening up the Tango when it converts to Lithium Ion batteries is a no brainer to engineer that weight back into the lower frame for an even tougher, more rigid and protective frame. It's going the other way....losing weight by taking away frame or other structure....that is much more perplexing because that would impact safety in a crash. I am sure that the Tango has taken safety into consideration, although I haven't yet seen their crash tests...stay tuned and most likely they will be out sooner than you think.
Posted by: Johnny V.
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27-Nov-2006
38491
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The Tango is a niche vehicle, there is no way this vehicle will go into mass production, it wont sell, the people are not ready for a unique vehicle like this, i really like the car, i myself would love to drive one but at that price there are better alternatives, it cant compete with Tesla and Phoenix Motorcars, financing a car that the vast majority of people wont drive is bad business, now i could see this vehicle sell if it was offered as a kit car, 10-20K range, offered with a standard fiberglass body shell etc.
Posted by: jerry clarkin
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27-Nov-2006
38540
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The Google Tech Talk presentation is very good! Thank-you to Rick Woodbury, Google, and Bill Moore for posting that here!
Posted by: Steve Ward
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27-Nov-2006
38542
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I agree. The Tango is great, but way too expensive to afford especially for lead acid batteries. When It gets cheaper I will revisit it, but for now, I'll look for a more affordable solution. Great luck!
Posted by: Richard Farci
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04-Dec-2006
39183
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TO SETH SUN:
Apologies, Mate. I didn't see that information in the article.
Now if someone could mass-produce this vehicle for under $10K US...
You wouldn't be able to keep them on your lot.
Posted by: Ralph Couey
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23-Nov-2006
38128
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I find it interesting that so many people claim that they would not want to be hit by a semi while driving a Tango. If I were to be hit while driving a Tango I would hope it was a semi with their low slung bumber,or at best a normal vehicle and not one of the extremely brain dead,jacked up monstrosities I see more and more of prowling our highways and looking for a victim. It truly is becoming an epidemic in my area. They appear everywhere and I suppose they simply reflect the violent, savage and responsiblity neutral country we are sadly becoming. Are EV World readers in other states seeing this same insanity? It is quite common in my area to encounter one of these rubber tired juggernauts on a daily basis. When I am seated in my Nissan Pathfinder, that could not be described as a low slung vehicle, and the giant bumper of one these vehicles is level with my head,no amount of side door beams,air bags or roll cages would save me. A side impact crash of even modest speed would certainly ensure death or a life altering injury. Just the other day an H2 Hummer pulled along side me in a parking lot and I could not believe my eyes. The tires were far larger than original equipment and it had a lift kit installed that added at least 6 inches to its already obscene height. The owner and his passenger actually appeared to have a hard time getting in and out even while using the running boards.I actually felt sorry for these folks. I could only imagine what private demons taunted them vicously enough that they would feel compelled to own and drive such an obvious symbol of self lothing. I asked an Oregon Highway patrolman what regulations could be enforced to put these vehicles off of our highways and he implied that there were some limited guidelines in place, but he seemed to feel there was little need to enforce them. I have an EMT friend who would not agree,as she sees the death and destruction these jacked up FOOLS CHARIOTS cause every day. Why have the insurance companies not expressed an interest in putting a stop to this growing insanity? Should we all continue to feel we are doing something worthwhile as we drive our EV's, in spite of the ever accelerating proliferation of these elevated killing machines? I haven't even mentioned what all this jack up nonsense does to the already abysmal fuel mileage. I'm really curious as to what others think on this since I may begin some form of campaign in the state legislature to have the altering of vehicle height listed as a crime since this alteration turns an already lousy vehicle into a lethal weapon. Any thoughts on this?
Posted by: larry elliott
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23-Nov-2006
38130
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I've wondered for years why charging time should be an issue for electric cars.
For many decades, electric fork lift trucks have had provision to change batteries quickly to avoid long recharge times. Why couldn't the same technique be used for electric cars? Instead of owning the batteries, one would rent a fully charged battery pack and, when it ran low, exchange it for a fully-charged battery pack. The battery pack would contain instruments to indicate how much energy was used, and the driver would be charged accordingly. Surely this approach would not require the discovery of a new principal of physics. Instead, it would require the standardization of battery packs designed for quick exchange.
Posted by: Frank Eggers
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23-Nov-2006
38139
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I love the concept and the car but I to be a success I think that it must sell for $10,000 or less.
In fact I think that with an ICE it could get over 100 mpg (maybe 150 mpg if it was a hybrid) and sell for under $10k. BTW I like BMW C1 200.
It is like a safe motorcycle. It solves 2 problem congestion and fuel use.
Posted by: jw Ogden
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23-Nov-2006
38152
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Frank... a couple observations about battery swapping. First of all, fork lift operations require a lot more effort and expense than you can imagine. The typical routine is 8 hours of operation, 8 hours of recharging and 8 hours of cool down. Most electric forklifts require something like 2.5 sets of batteries.
The swapping idea has been around for better than 100 years since the first electric taxis in Philadelphia before the turn of the last century.
In all that time, the idea has just never caught on. Can you imagine millions of EVs lining up every day to swap batteries? Would it just be easier to recharge them at home, at night?
Presuming Altair Nano or EEStor batteries live up their promise of fast recharge and long cycle life, the need for a vast battery swapping infrastructure becomes moot.
Posted by: Bill Moore
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23-Nov-2006
38159
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It's a great solution to a huge problem. If I ever have to drive on a daily basis again, I hope I will be able to do it in a Tango.
Posted by: Steve Erlsten
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23-Nov-2006
38163
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Sorry for getting so far off topic, but Larry is correct. Oregon has insufficient laws to protect drivers. It's also worth noting that bumper height laws are not typically enforced. I've seen plenty of illegally raised trucks in Florida.
http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/lift-laws.htm
It's not entirely a blame-free world, though. Anyone who modifies a vehicle in a manner that makes it a danger to the public is begging for a civil suit. There's no law against holding an anvil over your head, but if I accidentally drop it, I'm liable. It's the old "I'm not touching you" principle at work among adults, except this time it's "I'm not killing you."
Oregon needs better laws on the books. One example of laws: Virginia
28 inches (max) between the bumpers and the road if your truck falls in the 4,500-pound GVWR rating. For 4,501 to 7,500 pounds, the front bumper must stay lower than 29 inches and the rear 30 inches; for 7,501 and 15,000 pounds, it's 30 at the front and 31 at the rear.
"A federal standard specifies a zone on cars for bumper protection extending from 16 to 20 inches off the ground."
http://www.defectiveautomobile.com/bumperheight.html
That's roughly a 10-inch descrepancy.
For reference, roads are designed with a driver eye height of 42". That puts the middle of the bumper of large lifted vehicles right at chin level.
Posted by: Steve Erlsten
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24-Nov-2006
38175
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I think the Tango is a great idea and I hope they succeed. Thank you Rick Woodbury! Regarding the off-topic issue of bumper height: Insurance companies pay attention to this issue when they are sued. Police pay attention in those specific cases where the vehicle actually injures or kills someone other than the owner of the vehicle. Unfortunately, those are both examples of paying attention after it is too late for someone. Legislators pay attention when they are shown with statistics that the environmental cost, and more importantly the cost of injuries and deaths caused by these modifications is larger than the economic benefits stressed by the trade organizations that represent the manufacturers and installers of these lift kits and off-road tires. It is a big industry and it has a fair amount of clout. ------------- Larry Elliot wondered whether people who conserve fuel can continue to feel good about themselves when faced with the proliferation of such guzzlers. It’s true that the guzzlers and their psychologically imprisoned owners can be demoralizing, but look at the Tango when you’re getting down. The people who work at, and invest in, Commuter Cars are a real inspiration to the beleaguered environmentalist. Not everyone is a jerk. Look at Meyers Motors, with people putting up their own money to keep an existing EV design in production and try to introduce the next generation of the car next summer. Look at Phoenix Motorcars, Miles Automotive group, Gem, Dynasty, Zenn, and all the manufacturers of the components in their cars. Look at AC Propulsion, Tesla and Wrightspeed. I’m not really into screaming acceleration any more, but the other day I watched the drag-racing video on the Wrightspeed website, in which his electric roadster absolutely blows the doors off a Ferrari 360 Modena in the quarter mile. I was cheering at my computer! It was like watching your friend face the baddest pitcher in the big leagues, and your friend knocks it past the stands and out of the park. I felt great for the rest of the day, guzzlers be d*mned!
Posted by: Steve Ward
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24-Nov-2006
38176
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Tango? Ah, si, yo tango algo el mismo de esto!
nada mas se clique a uno website a bajo
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=5&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=pham-roger-$.INNM.&OS=in/pham-roger-$&RS=IN/pham-roger-$ Just select the link and paste it into your brower address line.
This will solve the problem of stability at high speed without requiring weighty ballast. Buenas noches, amigos y happy Thanks Giving.
Posted by: Roger Pham
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29-Nov-2006
38727
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I see that the ground clearance of the Tango is only 4". I looked up the Corvette and it is about that but my question to who ever reads this is:
Is 4" enough to clear speed bumps and pot holes.
How much could it be raised before creating stability problems?
Posted by: JW Ogden
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29-Nov-2006
38728
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BTW here is the competition:
http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/bmw_c1_200_2002.php
Not as good but much cheaper.
Posted by: JW Ogden
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29-Nov-2006
38737
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I've riddent tens of thousands of miles on motorcycles, between cars. I live in California and am very used to heavy traffic and dealing with it on a motorcycle. I've ridden in just about every large city in California.
That said, the Tango would not be welcome betwixt lanes by either people in cars or on bikes. Car drivers will think it's a car trying to banzai up where it shouldn't be and it will very likely hold up the flow of lane sharing in heavy traffic. I imagine it would become the bane of motorcycle commuters everywhere.
Remember also, that in California, lane splitting is not legal, however lane sharing is. I imagine this greatly reduces the opportunities for a Tango to legally filter through traffic.
The argument that the Tango is narrower than a GL1800 is moot since the GL can be leaned and otherwise manuvered to avoid obstacles such as mirrors; the GL could go places the Tango could only imagine. Besides, the GL is an extreme case; good luck following someone on something smaller and more manuverable.
Here's an idea... if you really want to lane share, how about learning how to ride a motorcycle? They make great gear for all weather conditions. If you can't or won't ride a motorcycle, well then... life is tough.
Posted by: Big Muff
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24-Nov-2006
38235
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Great Idea, I plan on buying one when they become more affordable. Infact I wish I could buy onr right now. Rick Woodbury is a genuine genius that I think really cares.
Go EV's
Posted by: William King
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24-Nov-2006
38238
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With all the B.S. government rules / regulations,
No Elec 4 wheeler will be on the roads anytime soon. The best we can hope for now is to start using 2 wheelers like the ones from falconev. And then graduate to 3 wheelers since they will be considered mopeds/motorcycles. Plus they are less expensive, and can be used by most people in good weather.
It's a start. If somebody wants scooters/motorcycles crash-tested, buy one and do it yourself. People are'nt afraid of small cars/scooters..their afraid of driving them on the same road as monster SUV's, etc.
Posted by: Bob Miller
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25-Nov-2006
38274
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the tango is a great idea but it looks bad they should try to make something like the carver www.carver-worldwide.com
an electric carver with LI would be sweet
still i do hope the tango sells well the world needs more EVs
Posted by: anti gravity
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06-Dec-2007
59484
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Why not engineer something that makes it so we can all work without traveling. Workspace at home is the answer. An electric vehicle is fine but less travel is what we all need. cooperative efforts to decrease fuel consumption will make oil prices drop. I see so many vehicles with just the driver and no passengers and this is on the way to work. Use what we got, and more efficiently. I can't afford a 100,000 dollar two passenger sports thingy that doesn't take my whole family here and there. I drive a 12 year old Dodge Caravan with 215,000 miles and am hoping for 300K Can this fancy little shoe box do that? Whats the track record for this machine and when can I buy it used? Where do I go to get a used part? Lithium Ion is a myth that hasn't been developed. Electrics always look to the future for solutions. Rock on Gas burners
Posted by: Edward Cramer
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02-Jun-2008
62033
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I think the work done by Rick and his family to bring the Tango this far is amazing. I hope that somebody in a position to take it to mass production sees the myriad of benefits that it could bring to commuters the world over. Just look at the difference it could make in cities where conventional gas burning vehicles are causing serious air quality issues.
It's funny how people fight change solely for the sake of hanging on to what's familiar. If you've looked at the presentation, you know that safety has been a top priority in the development of the Tango. If you look at current oil prices, the state of the domestic auto manufacturing industry (plant closings, union concessions, layoffs, etc) you can see the cost savings and the potential for restoring lost manufacturing jobs.
It's one of those glimmers of hope for our future that shouldn't be passed up...simply based on the lack of any alternatives that show as much promise. Good luck to the Woodbury's...and all of the rest of us. I'd love to own one.
Posted by: Pat Sheeran
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