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California EV Makers Speak Out



By EV World

MP3 audio presentations by three electric car makers at the California EPA's Zero Emission Vehicle Technology conference


Open Access Article Originally Published: October 03, 2006

California's EPA convened a special, three-day conference last week in Sacramento to explore the current state of zero emission vehicle (ZEV) technology. During the afternoon session of the second day, 26 September 2006, a number of electric car manufacturers and advocates were invited to make presentations. Among them were Tom Gage with AC Propulsion, Martin Eberhard of Tesla Motors and Ian Wright of Wrightspeed.

Each was permitted to speak for 15-30 minutes; their presentations were streamed over the Internet allowing EV World to capture and archive them for our readers and listeners.

Tom Gage spoke on the advantages of electric vehicles as a means of reducing pollution, CO2 emissions and our dependence on oil. He noted that if everyone woke up the next morning and drove a Prius, Americans still would consume twice as much oil as the rest of the world on a per capital basis. What is need, he argues, is not just improved efficiency and conservation, but fuel substitution and one of the best is electricity.

He explained that there are already 8 million "plug-in" vehicles in America known as recreational vehicles (RVs) where as many as 30 million people have had safe, positive experiences plugging in their vehicles at home or at RV parks. In his mind, this demonstrates the practicality of our simple, cheap, effective infrastructure known as the power grid.

He noted that the cost of operation of their new eBox -- including battery replacement -- is between 20-40 cents/mile. This compares favorably with a GM Hummer at 30 cents per mile just for gasoline.

Martin Eberhard, the head of Tesla Motors acknowledged that there is a ring of truth to the assertion that EVs have had limited appeal, so his company has developed a high-performance electric sports car that he believes has appeal beyond the narrow spectrum of EV enthusiasts. It's a car, he asserts, for people who (1) like cars and are excited about them, and (2) care about oil dependency, global warming, and pollution. He reviewed the performance specifications of the Tesla Roadster, explaining that it gets better than the equivalent of 135 mpg.

Eberhard then introduced the company's new concept car, called the "White Star", though he didn't show any photos of what the car will look like other than an artist's illustration of a vehicle covered with a tarp. He did say it will comfortably seat 4-5 adults, have better than 6 seconds 0-60 acceleration, get 250 miles on a charge and cost less that $50,000 in the base model.

During the presentation, he proposed a new, open architecture charging standard based on a beefed up version of the old SAE 7272 standard coupled with a robust, conductive military-type connector.

Perhaps most revealing of all, he compared the distance a car might travel using the same amount of electricity to charge an EV and a make hydrogen for a fuel cell car. He also comparing cellulosic ethanol to electricity in an EV. His slides demonstrated how much more efficient an electric car is compared to fuel cells cars getting 3-4 times the range. When comparing land used to grow biomass versus photovoltaic panels, the distinction is even more dramatic. He contends that one acre of choice Midwestern farmland planted in either switch grass or miscanthus will yield enough cellulosic ethanol to power a flexible fuel car 58,000 miles. By contrast, an acre of barren desert covered with photovoltaic panels will drive an electric car 1.8 million miles or 32 times further while avoiding the issue of food versus fuel.

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13 comments so far...

04-Oct-2006
34213
   It would be nice to see a mass-appeal car in the $20K American range -- none of these $100,000 zero-to-60-in-3-seconds sports cars are at all relevant to the real problem: that of conserving energy and minimizing carbon release...
Posted by: Charles Cranston

04-Oct-2006
34215
   As good as these presentations are. The one from

http://www.altairnano.com/

is perhaps the most important presentation of the whole ZEV Tech, Symp. How about a 25 year LiIon battery pack? I hope these guys are for real.

-- Brandy
Posted by: Dennis Brandenburg


04-Oct-2006
34224
   As good as some of these presentations are, the slides from the Toyota presentation were disheartening. They really tried to build a case against EVs with the blame squarely on consumer concerns with range and recharge time. I guess these issues are really connected since if the recharge time is short then the range is not so crucial. I can only hope that Tesla proves them wrong over the longer term.
Posted by: marcus H.

05-Oct-2006
34248
  

$20K EVs are coming.... from China. David Hirsch with Miles Motors also gave a presentation, which we also recorded and will podcast in the near future. Their highway-capable, Chinese-built EV will be in the upper $20K range and should be available next year sometime.

Also, ZENN's highway capable version should be out around the same time frame and assuming the EEStor battery lives up to its expectations, we might just see the tide turn on both range and recharge time for an affordable EV.
Posted by: Bill Moore


05-Oct-2006
34280
   Looking forward to the podcast Bill. David's presentation slides don't give away many details!
Posted by: marcus H.

04-Oct-2006
34203
   Fascinating!
Posted by: Ben Brown

03-Oct-2006
34160
   Pity we cannot see the slides from the presenters. Martin, for one, obviously had some neat graphs. Any way we can see the entire presentation with slides? Thanks, Bill, for putting the audio presentations up on the site. Very interesting data.
Posted by: Peter Fynn

03-Oct-2006
34164
   Very interesting. The real innovators in electric cars seem to have moved to Silicon Valley. Apart from Tesla, though, venture capitalists still seem to be wary of investing in electric cars. For good reason. Electric cars combine the automotive and battery industries -- two industries that require a lot of capital and a long investment time horizon. Worse yet, most venture firms have learned that most of what startups in these industries present as a business plan turns out to be only wishful thinking. It will be interesting to see whether Tesla can get the venture community enthused about the electric car industry.
Posted by: paul peterson

03-Oct-2006
34166
   ZEV slides: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/symposium/presentations/presentations.htm

Where are the links to the recordings? -- Brandy
Posted by: Dennis Brandenburg


03-Oct-2006
34167
   Brandy.... the links are in the right hand column. Look for the Apple Quicktime and MS Window's icons. Click either to launch player in separate window or download using the links below the icons.
Posted by: Bill Moore

04-Oct-2006
34184
   Bill,

Sorry I meant the recordings for the other presentors. I have interest in V2G, PG&E, etc.

Brandy
Posted by: Dennis Brandenburg


04-Oct-2006
34190
   "obscure British sports car" chassis" as an ariel atom owner im ofended by the term. the ariel atom is provably the most fantastic sports car on the road today and whit its honda VTEC engine is also very relliable and economic. my car as 300hp and weight only 500kgs and tanks to the 100L LPG tank that i had instaled is also enviromentally friendly i would like to remember that the greatest american sports cars had "obscure British sports car chassis" like ford shelby cobra or the ford GT40
Posted by: Bruno Garcia

04-Oct-2006
34199
   Excellent talk by Tom Gage of AC Propulsions. They have the best answers in the eBox and their AC-150 controller used in the Tesla and Venturi Fetish. Maybe it will be used in a FORD or Chevy some day ?

I'd love to see a Toyota Scion hybrid. The Prius with lithium batteries is my next choice. A plugin hybrid would be my next choice but will probably be an aftermarket addition after a year or 2 of owning the Prius.

I see more and more how poor my 03 Honda civic hybrid is. I only get 55-60 mpg most of the time with a high of 74 mpg. A prius I have been renting while out of town for work fives me times of 99.9 on 5 mile trips. It would be higher but that's the max on the gauge.
Posted by: jim stack



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